@maxheadroom Don’t even get me started :) https://ar.al/notes/farewell-not-goodbye/

@aral Hello Aral. I haven't interacted with you in a while, but it's super fun to see that you were once part of DiEM25 (I am a current member [have been for a few years]). I am trying to fight internally against many of the things you have said there, not least the internal digital tools used, and how they reflect the hierarchical structures of the members. Agreed that the voting system is terrible (not open source, made in-house, etc), among other things. Just know that there is movement inside to improve these. Nonetheless, as I suppose you suppose, the values are generally still resisting strongly. Just wanted to share this with you :)

@aral Do not disagree with anything you said, but I ask you something back: can we not salvage the good (that you yourself identified) and change the bad? Note that I "apply" this specifically to an organization whose founding principles and values are already very good. If the base organizes well enough, change can be made.

I remember you replying to someone else saying "no structure that has hierarchy can topple a hierarchy-based society" (paraphrasing). But that would seem to imply that the end goal is a sort of very horizontal anarchism (not in the derogatory sense!), and I do not think that is the way to go. I believe humans (and other forms of life, for that matter) naturally form some hierarchical structure. Of course, the current on is pure trash. But social formations with asymmetries I don't think are necessarily undesirable, right? Provided that all people (and ideally all life) are free and live as flourishing a life as possible.

To make a more concrete point: I do not mind having someone that speaks for me on TV, if 1) I agree with the vast majority of what they say and 2) I truly believe they are on a quest to improving their views and have in mind the best interest of who they represent. Hell, I would love for you to represent me one day! Please run for an office I can vote for :P

Finally, if it turns out DiEM25 and/or Progressive International are "bad", I will give up large-scale organising for a while (it might be "contextual bad luck") and come back in a few years.

P.S.: I will @ you again once I get DiEM25 to open source stuff and actually stop producing software in-house when there's good (better) tools out there to use (looking at you, voting system).

Sorry for the long post (I have even more to say! ahah)

@filipe Yeah, I truly do believe that hierarchies are the problem. Even if it’s our hierarchy. Perhaps even more so if it’s our hierarchy. Because that’s the hierarchy we’re most blind to. That’s the hierarchy, we want to love. That’s the hierarchy we’re least able to be critical of.

So I’m sorry, I won’t represent you. But we can represent the things we believe in together. And sure, that’s rich coming from a guy who is more at home on stage than at home and I’m not saying we should all do the same things… so, concrete example:

I’m being introduced before my talk in front of an undergraduate year of students in Belgium. The dean starts talking me up. “We’re so lucky to have Aral… he’s so blah blah blah” and I actually walked on stage and cut her off (kindly) saying “please don’t do this. Don’t put me or anyone else on a pedestal. Because that’s how you create assholes.”

So if you want to understand where I’m coming from, it’s that.

And, as much as I respect his academic credentials and how he handled himself during the financial crisis and as much as I’ve learned from him about the economy, etc., I just don’t see that in Yanis. And I don’t see that in how Diem is structured.

I don’t need a left-wing institution that thinks they’re cleverer than everyday people to replace right-wing institutions that think they’re cleverer than everyday people.

So, anyway :)

Do let me know when you’ve made progress. I’m always open to changing my views based on new evidence ;)